Executive Summary

The “Ship of Theseus” problem asks whether an object that has had all its parts replaced remains fundamentally the same object. In the context of musical groups, the question becomes: when every member of a band has been replaced, is it still the same band? This white paper examines that philosophical and practical dilemma as it manifests in the music industry—analyzing how identity, authorship, legality, branding, and public perception intersect. Using examples from rock, pop, and legacy acts, it explores competing frameworks for defining what makes a band “itself.”

1. The Ship of Theseus: From Philosophy to Popular Culture

In classical philosophy, Theseus’ ship—maintained by replacing each plank over time—posed a paradox about identity over change. The problem reemerges in modern collective enterprises like orchestras, corporations, and especially bands, where membership turnover is common.

In the arts, identity is not purely material (who plays) nor purely legal (who owns the name). It’s also performative and narrative—a social contract between creators and their audience. Bands embody that contract in a particularly fragile form: they are legal entities, creative partnerships, and cultural symbols simultaneously.

2. The Band as a Ship: Components of Musical Identity

Component

Description

Identity Risk When Replaced

Personnel

Founding and performing members, especially vocalists and songwriters.

High – fans often equate voice or songwriter with authenticity.

Sound

Stylistic traits, arrangements, and tone palette.

Moderate – can evolve naturally or shift radically.

Repertoire

Songs and catalog ownership.

Moderate to high – songs can outlive creators, but perception shifts if new members reinterpret them.

Name and Brand

Trademark, logo, and trade identity.

Legal continuity may persist even after cultural identity dissolves.

Narrative

The story the band and its fans tell about its origin and purpose.

High – loss of coherent story leads to audience confusion or cynicism.

3. The Legal Ship: Trademarks and Corporate Continuity

From a legal standpoint, bands are often incorporated as business entities or partnerships. Trademarks and rights can thus persist independently of membership.

Trademark Continuity: If the registered owner or company retains the mark, they can license the band name even if no founders remain. Case Study: Little River Band (Australia): As seen in We Two Pty Ltd v. Shorrock (2002), the company retained the trademark despite all original founders’ departure—producing a touring version of the band with no original members. Parallel Cases: The Drifters and The Platters endured decades of litigation over naming rights. Yes, Foreigner, and Thin Lizzy each field modern incarnations with minimal or no founding members.

This legal structure solves business continuity but often fractures cultural authenticity—the ship sails, but the passengers are new.

4. The Cultural Ship: Authenticity and Audience Expectation

Fans do not perceive a band as merely a legal entity. They associate it with faces, voices, and ethos. When those vanish, continuity feels broken even if the name persists. Conversely, when creative spirit continues despite legal fragmentation (e.g., Peter Gabriel–less Genesis or post-Mercury Queen), fans may still grant legitimacy due to musical continuity or blessing by key members.

Cultural legitimacy hinges on:

Authorship: Do original writers remain? Consent: Did departing members endorse successors? Continuity of sound: Does the band sound like itself? Transparency: Are audiences informed of membership changes?

Bands that violate these unwritten norms often suffer reputational damage, even when legally compliant.

5. The Ontology of Bands: Competing Definitions of “Same”

Framework

Definition of “Same Band”

Example

Implication

Legalist

Whoever owns the trademark or corporation.

Little River Band, The Drifters

Continuity guaranteed by law, authenticity questioned.

Essentialist

Requires at least one founding or defining member.

Rolling Stones, U2

Intuitive legitimacy; dissolves when last founder leaves.

Functionalist

Defined by performing the same music and style to audiences.

Post-Mercury Queen, touring orchestras

Continuity through function, not origin.

Narrativist

Identity is sustained by a shared story endorsed by fans and participants.

Fleetwood Mac (multiple eras)

Allows evolution if narrative coherence is maintained.

6. The Paradox of Legacy and Replacement

The longer a band’s career, the likelier it faces personnel turnover. Yet longevity increases brand value—creating incentives to preserve the name even when substance changes.

This produces the “Legacy Paradox”:

Retaining the name maximizes economic value but risks alienating purists. Rebranding honors authenticity but sacrifices recognition.

Many groups adopt hybrid approaches: “John Fogerty of Creedence Clearwater Revival,” “The Original Wailers,” or “Jefferson Starship.” These signal partial continuity while avoiding outright misrepresentation.

7. The Role of the Audience

The audience ultimately adjudicates identity. If listeners accept the current lineup’s legitimacy, social identity persists even if original membership does not.

Sociologically, this is collective intentionality—the band is what the community agrees it is. When fans split, the name fractures into competing realities.

Digital platforms intensify this divide: official playlists, algorithmic “artist pages,” and trademark ownership dictate what casual listeners encounter, often silencing historical nuance.

8. Ethical Considerations

Truth in Labeling: Audiences deserve transparency about who performs under a band name. Moral Rights of Originators: Founders have a right to be identified as creators even when no longer performing. Preservation of Cultural Heritage: Archival work should distinguish between original recordings and later performances while honoring both.

9. Implications for Policy and Practice

Industry guidelines could mitigate Ship of Theseus confusion:

Mandatory lineup disclosure in advertising for legacy acts. Provenance metadata in streaming services noting original members. Voluntary certification (“Authentic Heritage Band” labels) akin to appellations in cultural preservation. Dispute resolution standards for fair use of legacy names, modeled on performing-arts arbitration.

Such measures would protect both economic interests and cultural honesty.

10. Conclusion

The Ship of Theseus thought experiment exposes a fundamental truth about bands: identity is neither static nor purely material—it is relational, maintained by law, narrative, and audience memory. When those drift apart, confusion and conflict follow.

A band, like Theseus’ ship, may survive replacement plank by plank—but whether it remains the same vessel depends on who tells the story, who steers it, and who still believes in its name.

Suggested Reading

Parfit, Derek. Reasons and Persons (1984) — on identity and psychological continuity. Grossberg, Lawrence. Rock and Roll as Cultural Practice (1992). Cases: We Two Pty Ltd v. Shorrock (2002); The Drifters, Inc. v. Faye Treadwell series; Re Yes Touring Agreements (2015). Frith, Simon. Performing Rites: On the Value of Popular Music (1996).

Prepared by:

White Paper Division, Torah University Media / Cultural Legitimacy Series

Date: October 2025